Leanne
Forgive me, but 70 years ago weren’t Plaid Cymru’s leaders supporting Franco?
Regards
Leighton
Yes Leighton, about the same time Tory Churchill called Mussolini "the greatest lawgiver among men" and Liberal Lloyd George called Hitler "the greatest living German". 70 years ago was a very long time ago Leighton.
But tell me, wasn't George Galloway still a Labour MP when he saluted Saddam's courage, strength and indefatigability?
Now, who was it that derided bitchy politics this morning? Time to take your own advice maybe Leighton?
"Yes Leighton, about the same time Tory Churchill called Mussolini "the greatest lawgiver among men" and Liberal Lloyd George called Hitler "the greatest living German". 70 years ago was a very long time ago Leighton."
ReplyDeleteGood wikipedia rip off mate.
Epic Fail for Leanne Wood.
Marcus evidently has yet to learn what an 'epic fail' actually is, which is surprising given that Welsh Labour have been producing so many of them recently.
ReplyDeleteOswald Mosely was a member of the Labour Party, ergo the Labour Party supported Franco. That is essentially Leighton and Marcus' "argument". Make sense? Thought not.
Now that's what I call an 'epic fail'.
Marcus - Oh my god, internet user uses wikipedia - stop the press.
ReplyDeleteBy calling this an epic fail for Leanne Wood what are you saying? That because some in Plaid supported Franco 70 years ago Leanne Wood is not allowed to honour Welshmen who died for their country?
Don't worry, I assume that most Labour AM's will be more ready to honour fallen Welshmen than Leighton is. I'm sure Brian Gibbons will purchase a wreath or something.
Well actually only Saunders Lewis supported Franco. Other Plaid leaders didn't. Epic Fail Leighton. Epic Lie Lieton.
ReplyDeleteSTH - are you suggesting Leanne isn't allowed to argue for a cross-party remembrance of the people who died in the Spanish Civil War? You think only your party should do it? Or just Leighton perhaps? What's your point Marcus? You sound to me like an epic fail NuLab blogger if you think Leanne should be disbarred from commemmorating the international brigades. What extraordinary arrogance: NuLab aren;t just desperate to rewrite history, now the buggers want to own it.
Epic deceitful Fail.
KWK
Marcus,
ReplyDeleteFor chrissakes get off the bus.
Hen's point is perfectly valid. If Leighton is willing to hold Plaid guilty over something that may have happened 70 years ago then the Tories and Labour are open to the same kind of accusations.
Leighton has lost the plot today. Perhaps he's taken April Fool's a little too far.
Has anyone considered that a war memorial shouldn't be party-politics territory and that Leanne Wood has invited AMs of all parties to support one?
ReplyDeleteNice one Leighton for making a political point out of it.
Bloody hell - if people like Marcus Warner are taking Leighton Andrews's petty tribal point-scoring games as witty ripostes, then Labour are really fucked. Leanne Wood asked for an all-party agreement, by the way Marcus, for the whole assembly - entirely commendable I think. If you think it's an epic fail, then I suggest you unblinker yourself from NuLab arselicking and think about it again.
ReplyDeleteChrist you load of babies – let me answer.
ReplyDeleteLeanne is I am sure genuine in calling for support – I just think it’s a bit silly she didn’t think that this would be a jibe back at her.
Personally, I don’t hold Leanne responsible for Saunders Lewis’ views.
Simon – An epic fail is a man in his thirties blogging while he should be looking for work – know anyone?
Your point only works if a Labour AM said – “We want us to support the campaign against the blackshirst and memory of Oswald Mosely”.
No one is saying Plaid today are fascists
Imagine a tory AM – “Calling for support of the gallant miners in the Miners Strike” – Simon would spit all over his giro if he read that.
The fact is that Leanne Wood is not a cultural nationalist; hence why I know she is genuine.
"if people like Marcus Warner are"
ReplyDeletei am just one bloke dude.
Simon – An epic fail is a man in his thirties blogging while he should be looking for work – know anyone?
ReplyDeleteEpic Fail.
"Leanne is I am sure genuine in calling for support – I just think it’s a bit silly she didn’t think that this would be a jibe back at her."
ReplyDeleteShe most likely expected a response fitting the campaign and not some cheap shot Marcus.
P.S
I think your attacks on someone who is out of work because of a disability are starting to ware thin.
Marcus - As you rightly pointed out in your first comment (but Leighton did not) it was certain high profile members of Plaid that had Franco supporting stance, it certaintly wasn't Plaid policy.
ReplyDeleteAnd even if it had been fully fledged Plaid policy in the 20's to support Franco - what on earth has that got to do with this? As Anon points out leighton decided to turn a request for a war memorial into cheap political points (one might even call it bitchy). What on earth does the stance of some Plaid members in 1920 have to do with Leanne Wood?
Over the past few days some parts of Welsh Labour have made it clear that they still live in the past. I thought that it was just the 80's and 90's they were stuck in but now it seems that it's the 20's as well!
"I think your attacks on someone who is out of work because of a disability are starting to ware thin."
ReplyDeleteNot at all - the guy goads, smears, belittles me and generally is unpleasant to me at every available opportunity.
If he is unfit to work, then how is he able to blog incessantly and often to launch attacks at others? A man so keen to take the piss and questions others, deserves scrutiny back.
He goaded me when i got sacked, revelled in it.
I have tried to offer an olive branch, i did only this week, he just wont accept it.
That offer is still there - but he prefers to just continue to bicker with someone alot younger than him. I have to live with that - its a shame, because i do feel we would get on if we had a pint, get to know each other more.
Like i said - what can i do?
Not at all - the guy goads, smears, belittles me and generally is unpleasant to me at every available opportunity.
ReplyDeleteDemonstrably untrue. Disagreeing with someone is not the same as goading them; and frankly you belittle yourself Marcus.
If he is unfit to work, then how is he able to blog incessantly and often to launch attacks at others? A man so keen to take the piss and questions others, deserves scrutiny back.
Implying that I am committing benefit fraud am am merely work-shy rather than disabled is not what most people qualify as "scrutiny"
I type with two fingers by the way.
He goaded me when i got sacked, revelled in it.
Utterly untrue.
I have tried to offer an olive branch, i did only this week, he just wont accept it.
Frankly you're talking rubbish here.
That offer is still there - but he prefers to just continue to bicker with someone alot younger than him. I have to live with that - its a shame, because i do feel we would get on if we had a pint, get to know each other more.
Good grief.
Yawn, Simon we go around in circles.
ReplyDeleteYou do the 'witty' retorts, i carry on arguing, I block you on twitter, you take the piss for me doing that, You block me on twitter, i take the piss out of you for doing that. We are like kids, but one is 26 and you are nearly 40.
Frankly, and i am a guilty party in all of this i must admit, i do wonder why we both do this? I couldnt give a shit what you think, what you do, who you are or anything like that (i am sure you are the same). Which makes my continuing bickering with you something i need to stop for my own sake.
How about we ignore each other?
If not - how about a charity boxing match? (this is a joke before people get all high and mighty)
Or how about we drop arms and thrash out any differences, hell we may even learn a bit about each other? To say you have never ever goaded me (and vice versa) is not true. We can go through some of the things that I have said that havent been true, find out the truth (and vice versa) and move on.
How about you guest post on my blog?
I am open to ideas - the one option i wont do is continue this constant two way insult throwing.
You have my word from now that if you dont want to try at least learn a bit about each other, then i will ignore you and will not say a bad word about you.
I notice David has been blogging in work time AGAIN.
ReplyDelete"Some load of bollox"
followed by,
"Posted at 13:37"
This isn't a two-to-tango situation, Marcus. This is just you.
ReplyDeleteIf it makes you feel better, try pretending that we're having a pint in a pub. Whatever rubs your rhubarb.
PS I am 36, which is only slightly nearer 40 than 30. I mention this because it seems to fascinate you almost as much as my disability and ability to type with two fingers does.
for reference, Plaid members wanted to set up a Wales-Basque Country supoprt group during the Civil War.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, the Civil War is as much cultural as it is political. The reason the Basques and Catalans held out for so long against Franco was because of the cultural politics side of it i.e. they were Basques and Catalans and saw that Franco and all he stood for would undermine their language and culture.
Leanne's stance is then very much as cultural nationalist one as the fight against Franco by the Basques and Catalans was a cultural as well as purely political one.
In any case, what's wrong with Cultural politics? Don't we all have culture or is culture for some people and not for others?
Masaryk
We seem to have reached the stage where Marucs has admitted that Leighton Andrews's comment was cheap and shitty, that only one prominent Plaid personality supported Franco (and that only for a ahile), and that Leanne has a perfect right to call for an all-party International Brigades memorial.
ReplyDeleteWhich begs the question of why he attacked her in the first place by condoning Andrews's dickish comment and accusing her of an epic fail.
Re Tories and Miners , the analogy is also a fail, Marcus.
You obviously think Andrews is as much of a nasty and dickish character as we do - but as a Labour blogger you're staying on-message. Even if it involves bizarre retractions and contortions.
KWK
Here's a new one butties: Neil Kinnock was against joining the EU (until he leapt onto the gravy train); ergo, the Labour party is UKIP.
ReplyDeleteMake sense butties?
Hello
ReplyDeleteI've commented on this discussion here (http://welshpoliticalhistory.com/?p=41)
Interesting site Adam, keep it up! ot often these days we see a blog that actually sounds intelligent!
ReplyDeleteJust a note, my Churchill/Lloyd George comparisons were used to highlight the unreasonableness of Leighton's attack, not as some attempt to show that they actually did love facsicts!
Hi Hen
ReplyDeleteThanks, Hen. Point taken, re: Churchill etc. I don't think anyone, including Plaid's leaders, actually supported Europe's dictators. But the nature of Plaid's positivity toward them was different to that of the British leaders cited. It was also more persistent.
Best.
Adam
And also just as irrelevant to the actions of today's politicians
ReplyDeleteCertainly. Though inasmuch as all history is the tale of how we got to here, it's relevant.
ReplyDeleteBest.
Adam